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#41 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:04 AM

I mean you can easily just change its effect to: you can use one trap card from your hand this turn and you can only use the effect of Makyura once this turn. I wouldn't mind that errata since Makyura's effect was only ever used for one trap on the show anyway and never a spam of traps.

 

I still don't see how it's "super easy" to inflict 9000+ damage with Makyura without Blasting The Ruins. Chain Strike? Secret Barrel?


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#42 Hypermaster117 Oldies WABIT SEASON 2117 posts 265.00 XCB

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 12:04 PM

No the easiest way is through the use of Magical Explosion and Life Equalizer

Chicken Game engine and Bamboo Sword makes it extremely efficient and you can even use Hope for Escape for more card draw
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#43 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 09:04 PM

OK now I see Makyura's uses. So why not just change the effect to one trap card per turn?


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#44 bobandjim Ancient One Needs a life 986 posts 108.00 XCB

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 01:39 PM

Maky is banned for the exact reason that it allows you to draw a ton of cards.  You can replace blasting the ruins with Sparks and the FTK still holds.  You would have to ban every direct damage card in the game and every card that can force your opponent to draw in order to prevent Maky from making FTKs, but then it will still enable you to draw into very powerful lock downs that are just as destructive.   Any card that lets you draw your deck is unhealthy for the game.  That's why Alter Reality Games has banned Royal Magical Library from their tournament series.

 

As for errata, this might be the one card I support it.  It would make Traditional marginally more playable.  Erratas are functionally the only way to remove a bad effect from the game entirely.  On the other hand it serves as an interesting piece of history for future game designers.  You can see how removing a fundamental game design feature (in this case setting traps) can break a game.  Besides Traditional is a broken mess and probably not worth trying to save anyway.


Edited by bobandjim, 05 March 2016 - 01:43 PM.

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#45 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 04:05 PM

Dark Magician is equipped with Graydle Alligator. Dark Magician is banished until the End Phase - what happens?


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#46 Yami Stomach Oldies Wut 9469 posts 691.00 XCB

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 04:29 PM

Interdimensional Matter Transporter: If you control your opponent's monster because of ... "Snatch Steal", and remove the monster with "Interdimensional Matter Transporter", the monster returns to your side of the field, then immediately returns to your opponent's side of the field.

 

basically that


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#47 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 04:48 PM

But Graydle Alligator has the effect to destroy the equipped monster if Graydle leaves the field.


Edited by EeL, 06 March 2016 - 04:48 PM.

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#48 warrain Ancient One The Force is here 2446 posts 157.00 XCB

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 04:51 PM

But it doesn't work if the graydle leaves the field because the monster left first
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#49 Yami Stomach Oldies Wut 9469 posts 691.00 XCB

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 04:53 PM

the monster leaves the field, the equip is destroyed, the monster returns (in the case of IMT at the end phase) on your field, then immediately shifts to your opponent (assuming its your graydle alligator)


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#50 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 02:32 AM

Who are the top 5 duelists (skill wise) in Yugioh: The Original Series and who has the top 5 decks (playability/cohesiveness)? 


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#51 Yami Stomach Oldies Wut 9469 posts 691.00 XCB

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 03:33 AM

Best Duelists:

Yugi (beat Atem)

Rafel (only other person to beat Atem, only lost 2nd time due to darkness of the heart bullcrap)

Atem

Dartz/Noah (both defeated kaiba and were only defeated by Atem/Yugi)

Kaiba

 

Best Decks:

Yugi (gadgets, silent swordsman, silent magician, nice cohesiveness)

Kaiba (dragon theme, easily summons blue-eyes fairly quickly)

Yami Marik (pretty much all his cards are useful at all times)

Mai (see above, especially after she added the stuff from Dartz)

Atem (while his final deck was still slightly mishmash it had more of a clear focus, god cards and dark magician. and it did both fairly well)


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#52 Jesse Team XC Head Admin 5529 posts 434.00 XCB

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 10:05 AM

I think he's asking to make another tournament.

In which case, Harpies would be the top deck, and the new Blue Eyes and Red Eyes cards would come close. Black Luster Soldier deck is alright and I guess Toons aren't too bad.

It's possible that Blue Eyes is better than Harpies now.
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#53 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 03:45 PM

I'm not asking to do another tourney because well, the usual participants are MIA (which is saddening). 

 

I was asking out of general curiousity on who people thought had the best decks in the original series and who were the best duelists (skill wise).

 

My top duelists would be:

  1. Atem
  2. Rafael
  3. Kaiba
  4. Rebecca
  5. Leichter

My top decks would be:

  1. Yami Marik
  2. Noah
  3. Mai
  4. Valon
  5. Bakura

I was leaning to give Bakura the spot Leichter has because I love the way he duels, but he was way too reckless with his LP (which I liked, but there were times he didn't have to be THAT reckless). Also, I'm sure Leichter may seem like a weird choice to some, but his duel against Kaiba was great and he held his own. The strategy was well thought out and the only reason Kaiba won was because he drew Blue-Eyes. Leichter also seemed like the only member of the Big 5 (besides Gansley) who even bothered study the game at all.


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#54 Yami Stomach Oldies Wut 9469 posts 691.00 XCB

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 04:35 PM

i rank Yugi above Atem because of the final duel


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#55 RiverShock Ancient One XC's Official Setmaker 4564 posts 86.00 XCB

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 04:40 PM

Hmm... Interesting questions.

 

Best duelists:

1. Yugi.

2. Leon (He's noted as a prodigy, and his duels against Rebecca and Yugi easily show his skills.)

3. Rebecca

4. Rafael

5. Pegasus (I put him above Kaiba for a probably unfair reason. Unlike Kaiba, Pegasus seems to still be a somewhat active duelist in GX, whereas Kaiba had already basically retired by the near end of the original series. He also lacks the weakness of lot of other good duelists in the anime share; a lot of them can be very overconfident at times, and often underestimate their opponents. Pegasus only did for part of his duel against Yugi.)

 

...and I know this was meant to be a top 5, but I feel uneasy about the fact several people didn't make it.

 

6. Kaiba (He's this low because of his effective retirement as of the Grand Championship, and because of his constant underestimating of his opponents, including Yugi, Pegasus and Joey.)

7. Bandit Keith (While he does cheat, he's also a very skilled duelist, and one of the very few that clearly shows strategic choices in his decks (he used a Machine deck in Duelist Kingdom for their immunity to magical attacks, for instance). There's a reason why Bonz, Sid and Zygor followed him, and like Rebecca, he was/is a high-level tournament duelist.)

8. Mai (She's very confident, doesn't tend to underestimate most of her opponents, and like several others on this list, is a high-level tournament duelist. She's occasionally too overconfident, though, such as against Marik.)

9. Leichter.

10. ...This spot is tough.. I guess I'll give it to Marik, since his intimidation and wear-down tactics tend to be rather effective. But he overestimates his abilities, and lost to Yugi and nearly lost to Joey because of it.

Honourable mentions go to Odion, Valon, Joey, Weevil, Dartz and Siegfried.

 

I didn't include Atem because we honestly didn't see much of his own dueling ability, and he seems to have peaked by the beginning of the series, so he didn't improve much. He also gives into his anger a lot. (Which is how he lost to Rafael, and was very, very evident in both his duels against Weevil, particularly the Waking the Dragons one.)

 

 

Best decks is trickier... Let's go entirely by their in-universe decks, ignoring the competitive game altogether.

 

1. Kaiba (He has a very well-rounded deck, with one of the more aggressive monster line-ups, and a lot of good Spells/Traps.)

2. Rebecca (She *gasp* actually uses strategy in her deck. Which is honestly, sadly, pretty rare...)

3. Valon (Basically entirely because individual cards of his are very broken, particularly Full Armor Gravitation, Phoenix Gravitation and Big Bang Blow.)

4. Siegfried (See above, but it's his Goddess Spells this time. Not so much Ride of the Valkyries, despite his tendency to pull off/attempt OTKs with it.)

5. ...I'm honestly not sure who to put here... You know what? I'll actually say Seeker. His deck has flaws (as noted by Yugi), but it's also a very powerful Exodia deck. The problem is, Seeker is horribly incompetent as a duelist.

 

Yugi/Atem didn't make the list mostly because of their constant habit of running bad cards in addition to their good ones. (The amount of times Yugi has ditched Chain Destruction with Emergency Provisions or Card Destruction is very telling, as is the fact he still had Feral Imp in his deck in the Battle Royale to determine the pairings for the semi-finals of Battle City.) Runners up include Mai, Keith (especially after his deck was augmented by Marik), Marik and Strings.


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#56 Gerdat14 Oldies Some Dude 2688 posts 159.00 XCB

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 10:13 PM

I don't want to list a top 5, because I am lazy. But I most certainly put Leon and Siegfried up high on the rankings for best duelists. Hell, Leon has a lot of interesting mechanics and removal paired into his theme, and he pulls it off in each duel he's in. I'm almost convinced Siegfried cheats as much as Atem does, but it's quite clear that he's supposed to be a major threat.


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#57 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 05:17 PM

Hmm... Interesting questions.

 

Best duelists:

1. Yugi.

2. Leon (He's noted as a prodigy, and his duels against Rebecca and Yugi easily show his skills.)

3. Rebecca

4. Rafael

5. Pegasus (I put him above Kaiba for a probably unfair reason. Unlike Kaiba, Pegasus seems to still be a somewhat active duelist in GX, whereas Kaiba had already basically retired by the near end of the original series. He also lacks the weakness of lot of other good duelists in the anime share; a lot of them can be very overconfident at times, and often underestimate their opponents. Pegasus only did for part of his duel against Yugi.)

 

...and I know this was meant to be a top 5, but I feel uneasy about the fact several people didn't make it.

 

6. Kaiba (He's this low because of his effective retirement as of the Grand Championship, and because of his constant underestimating of his opponents, including Yugi, Pegasus and Joey.)

7. Bandit Keith (While he does cheat, he's also a very skilled duelist, and one of the very few that clearly shows strategic choices in his decks (he used a Machine deck in Duelist Kingdom for their immunity to magical attacks, for instance). There's a reason why Bonz, Sid and Zygor followed him, and like Rebecca, he was/is a high-level tournament duelist.)

8. Mai (She's very confident, doesn't tend to underestimate most of her opponents, and like several others on this list, is a high-level tournament duelist. She's occasionally too overconfident, though, such as against Marik.)

9. Leichter.

10. ...This spot is tough.. I guess I'll give it to Marik, since his intimidation and wear-down tactics tend to be rather effective. But he overestimates his abilities, and lost to Yugi and nearly lost to Joey because of it.

Honourable mentions go to Odion, Valon, Joey, Weevil, Dartz and Siegfried.

 

I didn't include Atem because we honestly didn't see much of his own dueling ability, and he seems to have peaked by the beginning of the series, so he didn't improve much. He also gives into his anger a lot. (Which is how he lost to Rafael, and was very, very evident in both his duels against Weevil, particularly the Waking the Dragons one.)

 

 

Best decks is trickier... Let's go entirely by their in-universe decks, ignoring the competitive game altogether.

 

1. Kaiba (He has a very well-rounded deck, with one of the more aggressive monster line-ups, and a lot of good Spells/Traps.)

2. Rebecca (She *gasp* actually uses strategy in her deck. Which is honestly, sadly, pretty rare...)

3. Valon (Basically entirely because individual cards of his are very broken, particularly Full Armor Gravitation, Phoenix Gravitation and Big Bang Blow.)

4. Siegfried (See above, but it's his Goddess Spells this time. Not so much Ride of the Valkyries, despite his tendency to pull off/attempt OTKs with it.)

5. ...I'm honestly not sure who to put here... You know what? I'll actually say Seeker. His deck has flaws (as noted by Yugi), but it's also a very powerful Exodia deck. The problem is, Seeker is horribly incompetent as a duelist.

 

Yugi/Atem didn't make the list mostly because of their constant habit of running bad cards in addition to their good ones. (The amount of times Yugi has ditched Chain Destruction with Emergency Provisions or Card Destruction is very telling, as is the fact he still had Feral Imp in his deck in the Battle Royale to determine the pairings for the semi-finals of Battle City.) Runners up include Mai, Keith (especially after his deck was augmented by Marik), Marik and Strings.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who saw Leichter's dueling prowess.

 

Do you consider Yugi/Atem to be two separate entities, and if you do, who do you consider was dueling during the majority of duels that Yugi/Atem was in (excluding the ones after Rafael removed Yugi)? I always thought those duels were primarily Atem, except when Yugi took over, like the duel against Possessed Joey. 

 

I disagree that Pegasus wasn't overconfident. He was very overconfident against Yugi (in the video tape duel and the Shadow Realm one), Kaiba, Mai, Bonaparte and Crowler... 

 

So judging by this, do people think Bakura's not a good duelist? I mean, I think he's lost every duel he was in except against Bonz, yet his strategies were pretty good. The only thing (and I love this honestly) that Bakura really has as a flaw is that he is very reckless with LP in order to get the opponent to do what he wants them to do. The prime examples are his duels with Yugi (Battle City) and Marik. Against Yugi he could have easily put those fiends in face-up defense mode and gotten them killed.


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#58 RiverShock Ancient One XC's Official Setmaker 4564 posts 86.00 XCB

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 05:52 PM

I do consider Yugi/Atem two seperate people. It's hard to tell who influenced the duels more, though. Especially given most would have made the same plays in most scenarios. I'd assume Yugi's input was used more, however. (Atem can probably read Yugi's thoughts, and that information probably contributed to his plays.)

 

Pegasus was somewhat overconfident in Duelist Kingdom, though in the video tape duel and his duel against Kaiba, he knew he had a massive advantage over his opponent, so it's forgiveable, and he started to wise up in the Duelist Kingdom final duel, though I guess his overconfidence did contribute to his loss. The Bonaparte/Crowler duel, however, was not overconfidence. He realized the two didn't get along very well, and took advantage of that. I also suspect he only did that duel in the first place to help them in that regard (as well as the fact the pair wouldn't have left him alone otherwise. It was also pretty good character development for Pegasus's personality, which is pretty necessary given he didn't appear much after Duelist Kingdom in the original series). Mai's a good point, though. I totally forgot about that one. I still wouldn't place Pegasus any lower than I did, though. I do view him as a better duelist than Kaiba and the others below the Top 5.

 

 

Bakura really isn't a good duelist at all. He's somewhat good at manipulating his opponents, but his actual plays tend to suck. (Especially, as you said, with his recklessness with LP.) Of all the major villains, he's easily the worst. (And even including minor villains, I'd only say PaniK, Seeker, Nezbitt and Gurimo are worse. Maybe Bonz, Crump and Gozaburo as well. And Mokuba if you can really count him as a villain, which he technically was when he was introduced, lol.)


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#59 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 07:17 PM

I do consider Yugi/Atem two seperate people. It's hard to tell who influenced the duels more, though. Especially given most would have made the same plays in most scenarios. I'd assume Yugi's input was used more, however. (Atem can probably read Yugi's thoughts, and that information probably contributed to his plays.)

 

Pegasus was somewhat overconfident in Duelist Kingdom, though in the video tape duel and his duel against Kaiba, he knew he had a massive advantage over his opponent, so it's forgiveable, and he started to wise up in the Duelist Kingdom final duel, though I guess his overconfidence did contribute to his loss. The Bonaparte/Crowler duel, however, was not overconfidence. He realized the two didn't get along very well, and took advantage of that. I also suspect he only did that duel in the first place to help them in that regard (as well as the fact the pair wouldn't have left him alone otherwise. It was also pretty good character development for Pegasus's personality, which is pretty necessary given he didn't appear much after Duelist Kingdom in the original series). Mai's a good point, though. I totally forgot about that one. I still wouldn't place Pegasus any lower than I did, though. I do view him as a better duelist than Kaiba and the others below the Top 5.

 

 

Bakura really isn't a good duelist at all. He's somewhat good at manipulating his opponents, but his actual plays tend to suck. (Especially, as you said, with his recklessness with LP.) Of all the major villains, he's easily the worst. (And even including minor villains, I'd only say PaniK, Seeker, Nezbitt and Gurimo are worse. Maybe Bonz, Crump and Gozaburo as well. And Mokuba if you can really count him as a villain, which he technically was when he was introduced, lol.)

His recklessness with LP is to manipulate the opponents though. His play against Marik (tributing Ra for Ha Des, then summoning Dark Necrofear and Earl of Demise was impressive). Also, the Destiny Board strategy against Yugi was also impressive. If Yugi had drawn any other monster (known to be in Yugi's deck at the time), he would have lost to the Destiny Board. You're right though, compared to Pegasus, Kaiba, Marik, Noah, Dartz, and (I hate to say it) Ziegfried, Bakura was probably the weakest. 

 

I think Bakura's better than Weevil, Rex, and even Mai. Bonz, Crump and Gozaburo are definitely worse than Bakura. 

 

Do you actually think Crump is better than Nezbitt? 

 

Also, I always assumed Atem made all the plays during the duels. Why else would Yugi transform into Atem?


Edited by EeL, 20 March 2016 - 07:18 PM.

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#60 RiverShock Ancient One XC's Official Setmaker 4564 posts 86.00 XCB

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 07:44 PM

Nezbitt actually misplayed. In general, he's fairly impulsive. (It's how he ended up in a 3 on 1 duel, and how he misplayed into Des Volstgalph.) Crump wasn't too bright, and his deck was god-awful, but he never screwed up, either. Nezbitt's actual skill level is probably one of the highest amongst the Big Five (and, aside from Leichter, he seems to be the only one to have likely played the game at some point prior), but his impulsive nature creates some dangerously stupid decisions.

 

 

Weevil's a pretty good tactician. He's definitely better than Bakura at the game, though Bakura's deck is probably slightly better. Mai is also definitely better than Bakura. I didn't mention Rex, and questioned Bonz, because we don't see enough of their dueling to know for sure how good they are. In theory, Rex should be on par with Weevil, but given his very straightforward nature, it's hard to see in practice, though it's likely he is. Bonz is implied to be average or slightly above average, but he isn't confident enough to really show it. (He was a little better in this regard in Battle City, likely because he became the new leader of their little gang after Keith... Left.) Bakura's probably slightly better than Bonz I guess, though.

 

It doesn't help that the only duel where Bakura showed any real skill was the Undead Lock duel. He barely even tried to win the Duelist Kingdom duel against Yugi (and very easily could have had he waited a little longer to play Just Desserts), his duel against Bonz may as well have happened off-screen it was so minor and uneventful, his duel against Yugi was pretty much entirely Yugi not being able to deal with Dark Sanctuary or Destiny Board (despite the fact we know he has multiple Spell/Trap removal cards, which Bakura had zero answer for...), and he didn't even try to win his duel against Kaiba. I guess his duel against Yami Marik kinda had slight skill to it, too. But he was naive to think Yami Marik was bluffing about Ra having more to it than regular Marik knew of. (And, like Mai, he Summoned Ra even though he really didn't have much reason to, just for the sake of doing it.)


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