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#1 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 01:46 AM

Since there's nowhere to have this conversation, I've started this thread. There are some things in the game that I just don't get right now, so I wanted to ask them here. If anyone else has anything they want to talk about, say it and discuss it.

 

1) Why the hell is Mask of Restrict so expensive all of a sudden? I thought tributing was an ancient mechanic that no one ever used?

 

2) Why is Spell Canceller so expensive? A one tribute monster that is weaker than most 4 star monsters run in current decks, decks that also carry monsters that have destruction effects., how can it possibly be so worthwhile?

 

3) If Burst Rebirth is used on Slifer The Sky Dragon, does it return to the Graveyard when it is Special Summoned (facedown) or after it is flipped face-up?

 

4) Why was Alexis chosen to be in the Xyz world in Arc-V? Will other actually important/interesting characters be in Arc-V?


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#2 bobandjim Ancient One Needs a life 987 posts 108.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 02:26 AM

1. The new monarch cards are shaping up to be tournament viable.  So tributing is a thing again.  As such people are considering siding mask of restrict as a counter to it.

 

2. Spell Canceler can be used to stop pendulum decks.  It's pretty rare though.  It's only been released in English twice, so that's also probably why it's so pricey.

 

3. Slifer says "During the End Phase, if this card was Special SummonedSend it to the Graveyard."    It's got a colon so it's a trigger effect.  Each End Phase where Slifer is face up it will check itself to see if it was special summoned.  If yes it will send itself to the grave. 

 

4. IDK


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#3 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 03:16 AM

So then if Slifer is Flip Summoned/flipped face up the turn after it was revived by Burst Rebirth, will it stay on the field?


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#4 Hypermaster117 Oldies WABIT SEASON 2117 posts 265.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 01:59 PM

Aster Phoenix will be in Arc-V


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#5 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 03:40 PM

Where are the characters people care about? Yugi, Joey, Kaiba, Tea, Mai, Tristan, Duke, Marik etc?


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#6 Yami Stomach Oldies Wut 9469 posts 691.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 03:49 PM

Where are the characters people care about? Yugi, Joey, Kaiba, ,  etc?

 

ftfy


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#7 bobandjim Ancient One Needs a life 987 posts 108.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 05:16 PM

So then if Slifer is Flip Summoned/flipped face up the turn after it was revived by Burst Rebirth, will it stay on the field?

 

No. It checks during each end phase for the condition that it a Special Summoned monster.  It does not account for when that special summon occurred unlike spirit monsters.


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#8 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 11:28 PM

But do cards "remember" that they were Special Summoned? If Slifer is flip summoned, won't that mean that its first entry to the field was being Set then being flip summoned?


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#9 RiverShock Ancient One XC's Official Setmaker 4590 posts 86.00 XCB

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 11:47 PM

A Special Summoned monster is a Special Summoned monster. It remembers this regardless. Heck, it's possible to have a monster that's been Normal, Flip AND Special Summoned. (By Burst Rebirthing a Gemini Monster and re-Summoning it.) The only way it will "forget" is if it is permanently removed from the field. (It will remember if temporarily removed from the field by something like Interdimensional Matter Transporter.)


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#10 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 04:06 AM

I always loved Curse of Fiend. However, I have always wondered if I was playing it correctly. Does it have to be face down on the field to be activated during the Standby Phase, or can I play it from my hand?

 

Also, does Great Moth/Perfectly Ultimate Great Moth need to be summoned on the turn that the card says or can it be on a later turn?


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#11 Yami Stomach Oldies Wut 9469 posts 691.00 XCB

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 04:48 AM

the moths must be on the correct turn iirc though why you would wait any longer with a weak bug equipped with an easily destroyed card is beyond me

 

and curse of fiend is one of the few cards that says "Fuck You" to game mechanics, you can use it from your hand during your standby phase


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#12 RiverShock Ancient One XC's Official Setmaker 4590 posts 86.00 XCB

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 04:56 AM

I feel like it does need to be set, but I have no idea where I heard that or if it's accurate.

 

 

The Moths aren't that strict. You can Summon them late if, by some miracle, your Petit Moth and Cocoon survive more than the required number of turns. (As indicated by their OCG text apparently.)

 

 

Yeah, Curse of Fiend does need to be set: http://www.pojo.biz/...ad.php?t=758512

 

I'd guess the OCG text of it makes that clear, but I have no idea.


Edited by RiverShock, 26 February 2016 - 04:59 AM.

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#13 Yami Stomach Oldies Wut 9469 posts 691.00 XCB

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 05:09 AM

i swear i've seen it used from hand in SP in the videogames (which are official so i would trust them more) unless the rulings changed


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#14 RiverShock Ancient One XC's Official Setmaker 4590 posts 86.00 XCB

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 05:14 AM

It doesn't appear in most of the older video games if I remember correctly. (In general, they tend to exclude a lot of the more pain in the ass ones. Heck, even DUEL ARENA didn't have Spirit Elimination, lol.)

 

And just decided to check in Legacy of the Duelist. (Which I BELIEVE is the newest YGO game, right?) It does need to be Set.


Edited by RiverShock, 26 February 2016 - 06:01 AM.

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#15 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 05:10 AM

OK, I wanted to know people's opinions on changing older cards' text to "improve" them and make them more usable in today's game. For example: Pinch Hopper's effect changing from "When" to "If" or Jam Breeding Machine losing the "you cannot summon any monsters except Jam Tokens"? Or just in general, like what they did to Dark Magician of Chaos, what if they did it to Yata-Garasu where they "weakened" him somehow?


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#16 RiverShock Ancient One XC's Official Setmaker 4590 posts 86.00 XCB

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 06:37 AM

No. Improving cards should squarely be done with support or retrained versions. It's not like the game is damaged by cards like Perfectly Ultimate Great Moth existing. And there's nothing stopping them releasing a new card based on Perfectly Ultimate Great Moth that doesn't suck.

 

Functional erratas like DMoC's should only be used sparingly. Some cards, like Yata, or Pot of Greed, or Confiscation, are too simple to properly fix. It should be reserved mainly for cards with very simple issues that can be easily resolved (cards like DMoC, Ring of Destruction, Sinister Serpent, Exchange of the Spirit and Temple of the Kings were amongst these, and cards like Night Assailant, Elemental HERO Stratos, Substitoad, Mind Master, Butterfly Dagger - Elma, Mass Driver and Card of Safe Return would also work along these lines.) There's also a few cards like Spellbook of Judgment or Gateway of the Six that could get away with entire rewrites, but there are VERY few of these. In my opinion, Chaos Emperor Dragon is an example of a card that absolutely shouldn't have gotten an errata. While I don't dislike the errata'd version, it's a card that, like Pot of Greed or Delinquent Duo or whatever, should have stayed banned. It had so many effects that needed to be toned down. (And really, they could have just released a retrained version.)


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#17 Gerdat14 Oldies Some Dude 2690 posts 159.00 XCB

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 03:09 PM

I'm mostly against the idea of improving card text as well. There are some times where i think it's needed (Approprite, for example), but retrained versions are a way to have similar effects while increasing the card pool.


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#18 BryceHarperFan Oldies Grand Ultimate Super Poster 2965 posts 424.00 XCB

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 06:08 PM

But why not just fix the old card, instead of wasting a new card's spot? Instead of releasing a re-trained version of Great Moth, fixing the old effect would be better. Personally, I despise what they did to Exchange of the Spirit. Dark Magician of Chaos and Ring of Destruction kept the spirits of those cards, but Exchange of the Spirit became a totally awful new card that is just trash. Now, in relation to Great Moth, those cards had amazing effects and that's why they are (were) banned. Great Moth was made at the beginning of the game, where monster removal and backrow destruction wasn't really a thing. Just like Gate Guardian, their ATK was what made them special, not their effects. 

 

The only thing that would really make me be fine with them keeping their old text, is if they made a support card for the older cards that give them new effects. For example, a re-trained Cocoon of Evolution that brings them out instantly and provides protection to them. Or a card that summons Gate Guardian without needing to send the monsters from the field to the Graveyard.

 

Also, I saw Night Assailant mentioned. Why is he considered good? He's just Man-Eater Bug/Old Vindictive Magician with an effect that will never get used.


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#19 RiverShock Ancient One XC's Official Setmaker 4590 posts 86.00 XCB

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 07:11 PM

Errataing just any old card is incredibly dangerous. What should decide a card is "bad" enough to be altered? Oh look, nobody's using Kycoo anymore, let's buff it. Oh look, now Kycoo's better than Rai-Oh, better improve that. And so on. It would exponentially increase power creep. And really, the number of cards with enough of a following are low enough that a retrain once in a while will cover all of them eventually.

 

Exchange of the Spirit (and Temple of the Kings, incidentally) should ALWAYS have worked this way. Prior to its errata, it was one of the most broken cards in the game (and Traditional's most consistent FTK by far.) The errata still keeps the spirit of the card (no, decking people out was not what the card was designed for), but it's no longer broken as hell.

 

Night Assailant isn't limited for its power. It's limited because the retrieval effect can get back other copies of itself. Being errata'd to not be able to get back "Night Assailant" would allow it to be unlimited without question.

 

 

 

Oh, and hahahahahahaha... Perfectly Ultimate Great Moth was NEVER worth even considering using. Its ATK was never even CLOSE to worth the impossible effort required to Summon the piece of garbage. And keep in mind that you could just Equip your Blue-Eyes with a Black Pendant or something for the same result, much more easily. Honestly, beyond like the LOB days, ATK has never been all that important. There's a reason why cards like Wanghu and Deck Devastation Virus have been so powerful in the past.


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#20 kyros27 Oldies Spewer of over 4000 Posts! 4559 posts 186.00 XCB

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 07:44 PM

 

Where are the characters people care about? Kaiba, Raphael, Valon  etc?

 

ftfy

 

You misspelled some names so I took care of that for you guys.


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