79 replies to this topic

[99wuk]

I think TGs are still viable without Tengu and Striker. I don't see 1 less Striker as that much of a setback for TGs but the 1 less Tengu is, which is why this deck wasn't as powerful as in the OCG.

I'll use the TG deck that topped Atlantis as an example (http://yugioh.tcgpla...p?deck_id=88470).

The changes brought by The ban list is
-1 Striker
-3 Tengu (too unstable to run with all the draw)

Other possible changes
-1 Torrential
-1 Mirror Force

These are because nearly everyone will probably main one Starlight Road to counter the double Torrential format. However, I still think Torrential could be ran because you cause it even if ur opponent summons one monster, Although the same can be said about Mirror Force, you might as well run D Prisons to avoid Starlight Road. 2 D Prison and 3 Horn of the Phantom Beast are already plenty.

TG decks are good because of their insane back row and constant big monster presence and the search effects of TGs when they die.

The key to win against the Tier 1 triad is Skill Drain. For game one it should be fine with Dino's and Wnd-Up. You can't do much if Wind-Up derps you anyway. Hand-traps could be considered. Since it did get past he wind-ups in Atlantis, I guess it should be ok but I havent played agains it myself. As of now, I'm more concerned with Inzektors' and Wind-Up's triple MST, as it could wreck the field if skill drain is down.

I would go with:
-1 Striker
-3 Tengu
-1 Mirror Force

+2 Fiendish Chain
+2 Call of the Haunted (maintain field presence, 3k Barbaros even without skill drain is nice)
+1 ?

The idea is that there are other targets for MST to hit other than Skill Drain. If they MST a face up Skill Drain, you can follow up with Fiendish Chain. If you have a face down Skill Drain and Fiendish Chain, you would flip Fiendish Chain first to bait the MST out first. CoTH is just half replacing Tengu's field presence and the Tier 1 triad run a lack of BTH and D Prisons so your monsters should go to your grave, CoTH is also another target for MST if they're staring at a huge Barbaros, Rai-Oh or a buffed up Rhino.

The question mark could be any tech, I would go with
Veiler (hand trap, wind-up loop, inzektor, tour guide...)
Reaper (shield, discard effect)
Warning (great card but has life point issues in this deck)
Starlight Road/The Revolution is Over (safer backrows and counters double Torrential, Mirror Force and Dark Hole.)

I may run The Revolution is Over over Starlight Road just to escape from being negated by Solemn Warning as a heavy storm can be so crippling but it's definitely personal preference. It a terrible top deck but this deck relies on opening hand more that top decks.

With side decks, I think all of the Tier 1 Triad may run Royal Decree in the future, though maybe not at 3. Decree has seen success in the OCG. Another one is Macro Cosmos/Dimensional Fissure. Wind-Up and Inzektor could run Royal Decree and Dino could run all of them. All of these effectively shut down this deck. I'm not sure what's to side in other than 3 MST. Assuming TGs aren't that popular in the large tournaments, they should fare well if they dunt meet these side deck choices.

Edited by 99wuk, 26 February 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[Sho Shinjo]

Another option for the T.G. Stun build is to drop Skill Drain entirely.

Before you start asking me why, my suggestion is to add mained King Tiger Wanghu. Wanghu is awesome this format, as it shuts down Wind-Ups, Inzektors and Samurai while hindering other Decks. It's also compatible with Horn.

Losing Skill Drain also opens a new range of options: mainly, the ability to use your own effects. Rhyno's 2000 ATK is always welcome, and a T.G. Cyber Magician can be teched so you can go into insta-Wonder Magician. Rai-Oh becomes twice as disruptive when he has its "no search" effect on, and Rai-Oh + Warwolves lets you run BLS as well. Then you can run hand traps as well to mess with your opponent. Fiendish Chain and Veiler also become a lot more viable without the redundance of Skill Drain.

I myself have been testing HERO Beat to some success. It has lots of options to mess up things, can get really stun-ish if it wants to but can also whip out big Summons if needed. Loving it so far.

[Cyberlancer]

Sho could you provide me with a decklist for your suggested T.G. Stun deck?  I have NEVER used T.G. before so I would need help making/testing it.

[Sho Shinjo]

@ Cyberlancer: Sure thing! You can always ask me for a Decklist or Deck advice xD If the topic isn't appropriate for it, PMs will work as well.

Hm, T.G. Stun for the new format without Skill Drains mained. I'd go with something similar to this:

Spoiler

Drainless T.G. Stun (40)
Monsters (18) 1 Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning 3 Thunder King Rai-Oh 3 King Tiger Wanghu 3 T.G. Rush Rhyno 3 T.G. Warwolf 1 T.G. Striker 2 Maxx "C" 2 Effect Veiler	Spells (7) 2 Burden of the Mighty 1 Dark Hole 1 Monster Reborn 3 Pot of Duality	Traps (15) 2 Bottomless Trap Hole 2 Dimensional Prison 2 Fiendish Chain 3 Horn of the Phantom Beast 1 Solemn Judgment 2 Solemn Warning 1 Starlight Road 2 Torrential Tribute	Extra Deck (15) 1 Chimeratech Fortress Dragon 1 Number 39: Utopia 1 Steelswarm Roach 1 Number 17: Leviathan Dragon 1 Mist Wurm 1 Scrap Dragon 2 Stardust Dragon 1 Black Rose Dragon 1 Ancient Fairy Dragon 1 Naturia Barkion 1 Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier 1 T.G. Hyper Librarian 1 Ally of Justice Catastor 1 T.G. Wonder Magician

With this, you're prepared for going second against Wind-Up, and if you go first you can Summon Wanghu or Rai-Oh with some backrows. Even if you can't SS as much, you certainly can Set a lot of cards, so getting some draws off a Maxx "C" is awesome. Veiler and Fiendish Chain will let you negate only what you want to, and getting Horn attached to Wanghu turns the match heavily into your favor.

Of course, Wanghu isn't useful against all matchups, so I decided to be a bit silly and include teched Burden of the Mighty xD Burden basically turns everything into Wanghu fooder. Except for Xyz monsters of course, but people won't be doing a lot of Xyz with Wanghu + Burden out anyways. It basically eats all Lv3 or lower monsters, and Lv4 would need a base 1900 ATK to drop to 1500 and survive, which then gets stomped by Wanghu's 1700.

...now I want to test that dammit xD I'll do that later.

I can give you a build with Drains as well.

[Cyberlancer]

@ Sho:
Thank you!  This decklist is something I plan to test once I get home.  Me thinks I will add in Cyber Magician somewhere, but I will figure that out later xD
One of the few flaws I see are Set monsters, more importantly, Ryko.  I could possibly try out Light of Intervention if this becomes a problem?
Also, no MST or Heavy?

[Sho Shinjo]

Cyberlancer, on 27 February 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

One of the few flaws I see are Set monsters, more importantly, Ryko.  I could possibly try out Light of Intervention if this becomes a problem?
Also, no MST or Heavy?

Ryko can be a problem, but it's not in every Deck: particularly, won't be mained on any of the tier builds. Since this Deck can easily side into Skill Drain, Ryko shouldn't pose a threat.

Yes, I'm suggesting Siding Drain. While Game 1 Hand Traps and stopping the loop is very important, if you somehow lose it anyways, you get to start in Game 2. That's where Skill Drain will shine, as you'll get to use it before your opponent loops. Like Macro Cosmos, Skill Drain is godly on games where you can go first.

And yes, no MST or Heavy. The only things you need to worry about are Macro Cosmos, Dimensional Fissure and Royal Decree really, any other Continuous isn't a real problem and the T.G. engine replaces itself so backrows aren't usually a problem: it's more likely they'll Warning your Rai-Ohs or Wanghus than your Rhynos, and if they don't they'll suffer from a lot of Stun xD D-Prison is a problem, but not very likely to be mained. BTH might be but they can only run 2 while you have lots of monsters, and everything else will trigger the T.G. engine.

Decree pretty much shuts you down, even with MST mained. If they Decree you and you don't happen to have MST, odds are you're sitting into 3-4 dead cards and a lone monster without protection, possibly with more dead cards in hand until you draw an answer for Decree. Macro and Fissure are troublesome, but won't shut your Traps so you can probably survive enough to give a good fight: those Horns are annoying as hell.

Instead of having it for the "what if" scenario, I decided to send all 3 MST to Side, to use them only when appropriate. If you wanna Main MST and Cyber Magician, I'd suggest to cut 1 Wanghu and both Burden to main 2 MST and Cyber Magician, then Side a 3rd MST and maybe Storm or Dust Tornado. I'd like to emphasize maxed Wanghu though, because it's key for this format: it shuts down Rabbit, Wind-Up and Inzektor with no effort. While Rabbit can try to run over it with a Vanilla, you have a full backrow to prevent that.

That's what I intended when suggesting this: give you a Deck with a good game 1 against the new top 3 builds which can side into answers for the remaining good builds.

Another option to main Cyber Magician could be cutting both Burden to main it and a Seven Tools of the Bandit, which pretty much solves all your troubles. Or main a single Skill Drain and side 2 more.

Edited by Sho Shinjo, 27 February 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[99wuk]

Sho,

I had the Wanghu thought in the last format too but I was playing OCG. The immense backrows in OCG sort of makes Wanghu less viable.

A problem that may occur is the higher number of monsters and protecting the Wanghu. The key in the deck that topped Atlantis was Skill Drain and search of TGs. With Skill Drain TG and Rai-Oh can be on the field at the same time. How are you going to protect Wanghu from Smashing Ground and that sort. By running Wanghu, the higher monster count decreases the backrow numbers. If the normal summon gets negated or blown up somehow (torrential, warning, judgment, BTH...etc) you will be more vulnerable compared to the deck that topped Atlantis.

Another thought I have is that would the deck be better off running TGX3-DX2 over Pot of Avarice. They do about the same thing but with Striker at one, TGX3-DX2 seems a little faster and would help the cycle of the searches more. If Cyber Magician is run, the grave fills   with TGs even faster.

[Dragonheart91]

Dude! I want a YCS Atlantis now! Card games on submarines anyone?

[Ruki Motomiya]

Dragonheart91, on 28 February 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

Dude! I want a YCS Atlantis now! Card games on submarines anyone?

That is what the Doma arc should have been. I mean, card games on submarines? Badass.

[redeyeszack84]

Something bugged me about 2 E-Tele back in the game, and at first, stupidly, it was fear of the return of Tele-DAD.  But then the most obvious answer hit.... yet ANOTHER way to spam out extra level 3 monsters for Rank 3 Xyz.  Extra Turbo Syncho-Xyz action in the makeing (especially with TRIPLE COTH).

Feel with Rabbit, Tour, and all that... there IS something devestating and quick to make... I'll have to look into it really...

[DarkBlaze557]

^ People have been talking about splashing ETele in Wind-Ups.

[SuperTrain]

How do people feel about Summon Limit? I can see something like Frognarchs or some Stun decks running it. Many big plays need 3 summons to set up: the initial summon, the secondary summon, then the Xyz/Synchro summon. Heck, even Gravekeepers could probably wreck shop with this, but they'd have to protect it.

*goes to test*

[Sho Shinjo]

Well, Summon Limit is always good if it doesn't wreck you. If you can survive the first turn, setting a Summon Limit is always cool. Gadgets, Gravekeepers, HERO Beat and some others might like to have this mained.

It's also ownage if you play it after your opponent has already Summoned 2 times, since it will block future Summons. If you let them grab their Tour Guide Summon, then make the Xyz into Zenmaity and activate Summon Limit AFTER they try to activate Zenmaity, you'll deal a heavier blow since they have a sub-par monster sitting there which can be defeated with a single attack.

[Cyberlancer]

Stygian Dirge? Has the ability to reduce the levels of all monsters on your opponent's side of the field by 1 while being a cont. trap card

[Sho Shinjo]

Cyberlancer, on 28 February 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Stygian Dirge? Has the ability to reduce the levels of all monsters on your opponent's side of the field by 1 while being a cont. trap card

And then Wind-Up Magician can Xyz into Zenmaity.

...No, I don't think it's a good idea. D:

[Sho Shinjo]

Sorry for a double post, but this is important:

What you guys think of Gellenduo in Agents? If Agents were willing to wait a turn before making a play, I'm sure they can do all their Duality/Cards from the Sky shenanigans, set Gellenduo and some defensive Traps and then pass. Nothing does burn damage on the top tier builds so Gellenduo would survive with ease, and then you can Summon Hyperion and/or Kristya with a single tribute! If you drop Hyperion this way, he also has insta-fooder to blow something, and since it was a Normal Summon, you can still play Duality.

[Rothon the Keymaster]

yeah i'm thinking summon limit is a good side option, especially in stun builds where attk is high.

@ gellundo i thinkits not too bad, i personally think mashmallon or something similar would work as well or better though, but yeah stall is always lotsa fun.

Edited by Rothon the Keymaster, 29 February 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[Sho Shinjo]

Rothon the Keymaster, on 29 February 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

yeah i'm thinking summon limit is a good side option, especially in stun builds where attk is high.

@ gellundo i thinkits not too bad, i personally think mashmallon or something similar would work as well or better though, but yeah stall is always lotsa fun.

The reason I specifically mentioned Gellenduo wasn't because of the actuall stall, but because it's a double-tribute LIGHT Fairy-type monster. You don't get more specific than that as support xD

Edited by Sho Shinjo, 29 February 2012 - 12:58 AM.

[Rothon the Keymaster]

forgot the double tu=ribute... yeah it'd work

[DarkBlaze557]

I've actually tested Gellenduo - and it doesn't work as well as it sounds.

The problem is primarily the speed issue. Without a Hyperion/Kristya in-hand, it's relatively useless, especially due to its mediocre stats and its effect doing nothing to the current meta. It's not a very consistent card on its own.\\

My problem with it during testing was that I always wished it was something else.