41 replies to this topic

[SyncTempest]

I was thinking since we're getting new extra deck monsters, Exceed Monsters, we have so many cards that we want to put in the extra deck, but not enough room. It would be accessible to have a 20 card limit extra deck, but like what the banlist does, the 15 card extra gives us a challenge making a deck. 5 cards can go a long way. Also, there are some that are specifically for Fusion, Synchro, and Exceed Monsters, so some cards might have to be changed, or make card for monsters from the extra deck in general. I want to see what you guys think this could lead to and/or what it offers.

[Hoiguyyami]

I dont know, i like it at 15. Its challenging making your extra deck, you have to drop some things for others, giving us too much room would make it too easy. Perhaps if 5 of the slots were unusable by synchros, then I'd be happy with that.

[SyncTempest]

We also have to thing about Meta-Game decks and the advantage they would get. At this point, it would be hard to use another Element Hero deck, and it's already hard to now because there's so many Fusions for them. I like it at 15 too, yet it's going to be more challenging this way because I can see some Exceed Monsters being used.

[Eldarichk W Mane]

Strictly speaking, you could have an Extra Deck of up to 30, because you can now use your Side Deck for Fusion and Synchro Monsters as well. If we allow for the possibility that Exceed Monsters will also be allowed, then I'm not seeing too much of a problem. I'm not saying it's a fantastic idea, but even allowing that 3 Side Deck slots go to Synchro/Exceed/Fusion Monsters, that's still technically an 18-card Extra Deck.

So, I'm good if y'all are.

[SyncTempest]

An 18 card extra deck sounds like a weird number. A 30 card extra deck is too much and gives meta game users an advantage, but I haven't heard about people putting extra deck cards in the side deck. Well, I know Extra decks usually have the essentials, Stardust Dragon, Black Rose Dragon, and Brionac. That what I see a lot. Some cards I left out because I don't see them as much as those 3.

[redeyeszack84]

In all honesty, I've rarely seen anyone use their ENTIRE Extra deck.  And if they did, it was never a mix of Synchros and Fusions.  I think the only time I've seen a mix is when Machina was viewed as threat and people kept a Chimeratech or two in there.  Or the Glads that added Synchros simply for the off chance they could steal a tuner from their opp.  

I dunno, just seems to me 15 is where its at.  The only ones that really are going to go over that number, have found a way to massively abuse the mechanic to special summon from the Extra deck, and giving them more to use would be a bad thing really.

[SyncTempest]

I think it is better being left a challenge. I don't usually fill up my extra deck because I like to leave move for cards I might think that are good for the deck, that's at least one reason.

[Sho Shinjo]

redeyeszack84, on 17 April 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

In all honesty, I've rarely seen anyone use their ENTIRE Extra deck.

You've never played with a Plant Synchro variant then. Unless you have VERY weird draws and mills, you spend like 5 to 8 Synchro monsters, not counting the ones Avariced back. The things you end up running out the most are Formula Synchrons though xD You upscale a lot using lower-level Synchros. Basically, anything involving Junk Synchron, Debris Dragon and/or Quickdraw Synchron could very well use their entire Extra Deck.

I do agree that 15 is a good number for the Extra Deck. Giving more than 15 slots lets you run situational cards you don't really need to run, while 15 makes you think and test a lot, ending up with the best of the best in your lineup.

Side Decking Extra Deck stuff isn't that rare, but I don't really like it. If I can't fit it on my Extra Deck, then I don't use it at all. I like to keep all my 15 Side slots for stuff I might need for a specific matchup.

Regarding Exceeds, while we have some cool ones, most of them are notoriously inferior to Synchro Monsters. People who will use Exceeds are the ones who don't need a full range of Synchro Summons. Nordics or Plant Synchro/Junk Doppel won't use Exceeds a lot, while stuff like Samurai can afford a pair since they use 3-4 Synchros regularly and have the others for a "just in case" situation. Decks like Hero Beat might include only Exceeds and Fusions as well, as they don't use Synchros a whole lot unless they tech Veiler or Gale. Gadgets don't Synchro a lot either, nor Gravekeepers, so Exceeds are good to go there. Even Zombies (which are arguably the best at abusing Exceeds as of now) can drop some Level 8, 7 and 5 Synchro monsters. They rarely Synchro something bigger than a 6, and when they do it's one of the usual suspects. They rarely use stuff like Black Rose, Catastor or similar because they can only do pair-leveled Synchros, so they can have 3-4 spots for Exceeds without trouble.

The only Decks I can think (from the common ones anyways) that would REALLY want a bigger Extra Deck are Junk Doppel/Plant Synchro/Synchron variants, Dragunities, Nordics, X-Sabers and Elemental Heroes, all of which can abuse a lot of a bigger Extra. Unless you want a bigger Extra just to run all those useless E-Hero Fusions that honestly aren't worth it and you only want to play because they're pretty xD I can't think many situations where I'd want to drop Mariner or Rampart Blaster instead of Zero, Nova Master or Gaia.

So yeah, 15 is fine. I often struggle for room, but 15 is good for the game xD

[redeyeszack84]

lol too true, I havent.  I don't think I've ever really played a single game since the new banned list lol

[SyncTempest]

Well, I'm pretty cool with it being 15, but now it's going to be more challenging.

[SyncTempest]

[img]http://http://www.yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/File:No39AspiringEmperorHopeYSD6-JP-C.jpg[/img]

[img]http://http://www.yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/File:StardustDragonTDGS-EN-UR-UE.jpg[/img]

[img]http://http://www.yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/File:GaiaDrake,theUniversalForceSTBL-EN-UR.jpg[/img]

Edited by SyncTempest, 20 April 2011 - 01:01 PM.

[Eldarichk W Mane]

Sho Shinjo, on 17 April 2011 - 10:16 PM, said:

...but 15 is good for the game xD

Oh, you are some kind of something, aren't you? =+^.6+= *wink-skers!*

EDIT: Okay, back on topic, Sho actually has a very interesting point. Although there are only a very few decks that would LOVE a larger Extra Deck, most others will be content with a 15-set. Still, I'm sure even in Quickdraw Synchro, some concessions can be made. Honestly - and I mean, honestly - given the spread of levels and the methods of recursion available in the deck, how often will 2 Monsters of the same level be on the field and you WON'T prefer a Synchro Monster? Unless they're running random tech "Gachigachi Gantetsu" (and seriously, you can probably do without "Turbo Warrior" for a couple of rounds), your "Quillbolt Hedgehog" and "Dopple Warrior" are going towards either "Junk Archer" or "Black Rose Dragon".

Edited by DueLion7, 18 April 2011 - 05:16 PM.

[Sho Shinjo]

DueLion7, on 18 April 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

Sho Shinjo, on 17 April 2011 - 10:16 PM, said:

...but 15 is good for the game xD

Oh, you are some kind of something, aren't you? =+^.6+= *wink-skers!*

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU I've been discovered!!!! *Bribes the Lion with beef steak*

DueLion7, on 18 April 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

Okay, back on topic, Sho actually has a very interesting point. Although there are only a very few decks that would LOVE a larger Extra Deck, most others will be content with a 15-set. Still, I'm sure even in Quickdraw Synchro, some concessions can be made. Honestly - and I mean, honestly - given the spread of levels and the methods of recursion available in the deck, how often will 2 Monsters of the same level be on the field and you WON'T prefer a Synchro Monster? Unless they're running random tech "Gachigachi Gantetsu" (and seriously, you can probably do without "Turbo Warrior" for a couple of rounds), your "Quillbolt Hedgehog" and "Dopple Warrior" are going towards either "Junk Archer" or "Black Rose Dragon".

As you said, several concessions can be made. The Decks with the largest range of Summons are the ones desiring a bigger Extra, but that's obviously because they CAN use ALL of them.

Let's take your Quickdraw example. If you're only running Quickdraw Synchron, the bare basics are Drill Warrior and Junk Destroyer. If you want consistency, go with Nitro Warrior as well, to have 6, 7 and 8. Then depending on the build, you run other stuff. If you have Quillbolt, Doppel or Tuningware, Road Warrior is good. If you want to have an answer to Monarchs, Gravekeepers or Gladiators, Turbo Warrior deserves a spot. Extra copies of Destroyer give you more destruction, and extra Drills can be used as insurance. So you don't need to use all the "Warriors".

Then, let's throw Junk Synchron into the mix. If you are still going for the bare minimum, you may want to swap Nitro Warrior for Junk Archer, as both Junk and Quick can drop it. Then you need generic Synchros: Level 5, 6, 7 and 8. Possibly 9 too. Catastor, Brionac, Black Rose and Stardust are the bare basics. Taking a non-Tuningware build, that's already 7 slots (the 4 I just mentioned and 1 of Drill, Archer and Destroyer). Probably you're using 2 Destroyers, and you probably want a second Level 5 for Junk. Armory Arm is also useful due to its level. Another Level 8 monster like Scrap or Colossal, as well as another Level 6 is cool stuff. Junk Gardna can be used by both Synchrons, so let's toss him there. That's 12 slots.

Now, if you have Glow-Up on that build, you'll need Formula Synchrons as well. Just 1 and we have 13. Then, since it's easy to make, let's add Mist Wurm/Trishula. 14 slots. We still have one more! If you add Tuningware to that same build, then you'll probably need Road Warrior, so that's 15 Synchro Monsters. Not bad. Although you surely want 2 Formula, so we start conflicting.

Then throw Debris Dragon in the mix. Now you need Dragon-type Level 7 and 8 Synchro monsters. You might also want a Level 6 one. Debris would probably attract a Lonefire engine, so that includes Spore too. Guess what, now you NEED that second Formula. You might want another Black Rose, or an Ancient Fairy.

If you want to do some tech, you might want to try Frozen Fitzgerald, or Dark Diviner in OCG. If you're running Chaos Sorcerer, you probably have Veiler too, so Arcanite is an option. And then you're needing from 18 to 22 slots in Extra Deck to include all of those things that you CAN use.

So that's the problem with increasing the Extra Deck size. It lets you run all the generic "needed" stuff, plus situational cards that are extremely good, plus multiple copies of certain Synchros (like Formula) that let you make more complex plays without needing to Avarice first or even Avarice at all.

And that's just Quickdraw/Debris/Junk. Nordics, X-Sabers and similar can have similar trains of thought. That's why increasing the size is a bit dangerous: you give too much potential to Decks that already have lots of potential, while doing nothing for most Decks that usually are fine with 15 slots.

Also, with 20 slots, Chimeratech Fortress is basically staple again xD

[SyncTempest]

There are going to be decks that will make a debut in this Format. Dragunities been actually doing well. In fact, I can see it in top tier 1 or 2. Formula Synchron mixed decks are good too. Meta-game would benefit from 20 cards in the extra deck because they will use all their cards. with more cards coming out, there's going to be people benefitting and people that are not.

[Sho Shinjo]

SyncTempest, on 19 April 2011 - 10:56 AM, said:

Meta-game would benefit from 20 cards in the extra deck because they will use all their cards. with more cards coming out, there's going to be people benefiting and people that are not.

That's true, but the point I was trying to make is that more often than not, while the increase helps all Decks in theory, only a select group of Decks will really benefit from a bigger Extra, and those Decks can already perform outstandingly with the current 15 slots, just need to make some concessions depending on their strategy.

In a sense, it would be like unbanning Pot of Greed (just to name a generic staple card). It obviously helps all Decks, but it would make the best Decks more consistent, while giving the not-so-good ones just a little push, ending in a greater difference on "tiers".

[SyncTempest]

15 is a good number. Not to little and not too much. It's an amount think makes you think of what you need and also you can put in cards that you want. I think Anti Meta decks won't really be affected by a change though.

[Ghost09]

in my opinion, 15 extra deck is good as it is as it gives variety on what duelist should play more and weight in choices interms of what they really need and what has more synergy with their decks. besides the side deck can also contain syhcho/fusions/exceeds for further adaptibility if needed so it can max out to 30 extra monsters while being 15 limit per duel!!!

~ Ghost09

Edited by Ghost09, 02 May 2011 - 09:24 AM.

[SyncTempest]

A deck that can benefit from a 20 card extra deck is an Elemental Hero deck. With more extra deck cards coming out, you would think you need more move.

[Elliot Gale]

Unless you plan on using Prisma (thus needing listed names), you really don't. You'll be fine with 1 Trinity, 1 Adoration, 1 Great Tornado, 1 Nova Master, 1 Gaia, 2 Absolute Zero, 2 The Shining, 1 Draco-Equiste, then a few fillers.

I hope I didn't miss anything important.

[Ruki Motomiya]

Elliot Gale, on 28 May 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:

Unless you plan on using Prisma (thus needing listed names), you really don't. You'll be fine with 1 Trinity, 1 Adoration, 1 Great Tornado, 1 Nova Master, 1 Gaia, 2 Absolute Zero, 2 The Shining, 1 Draco-Equiste, then a few fillers.

I hope I didn't miss anything important.

1 of the DARK Fusion when it comes out, at least.